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	<title>Comments on: Who Are the Real Free-Riders?</title>
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		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5954</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5954</guid>
		<description>30%+ for income tax
all corporate taxes which are passed on to individuals in the form of lower wages and/or more expensive products, excise taxes (e.g., gasoline) sin taxes (e.g., alcohol) sales taxes, state &amp; local taxes, state &amp; local income taxes, if any. Property taxes.  Use taxes.

Add that all up - it&#039;s well in excess of 50% --- IF you actually pay taxes.

&quot;So you are just plain wrong to say that most people pay NO taxes.&quot;

Allow me to clarify: most people pay no federal income taxes.  

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/228/

FORTY PERCENT of people pay no explicit federal income taxes.  I also don&#039;t count anyone as a taxpayer if their income comes from taxes, which includes any federal, state, or local government employee, since any &quot;taxes&quot; they pay are simply an accounting fiction.  That&#039;s at least another 10% .

&quot;You are a free rider because something was consumed and must be paid for.&quot;

Give me a break.  I make free riding possible.  What about the people who &lt;em&gt;aren&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; paying for it?  

&quot;You don’t seem to ever think about the inevitable reply. &quot;

I *always* think of the inevitable reply, which is why I heavily backlink all my posts.  Since I have written at length about many of the potential replies, I feel no need to waste 1,000 words reiterating an argument or a position to which I&#039;ve already done justice. 

If you have a specific question, reply, rebuttal, that you&#039;d like to make, please leave a comment to that effect, or send me some mail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>30%+ for income tax<br />
all corporate taxes which are passed on to individuals in the form of lower wages and/or more expensive products, excise taxes (e.g., gasoline) sin taxes (e.g., alcohol) sales taxes, state &#038; local taxes, state &#038; local income taxes, if any. Property taxes.  Use taxes.</p>
<p>Add that all up &#8211; it&#8217;s well in excess of 50% &#8212; IF you actually pay taxes.</p>
<p>&#8220;So you are just plain wrong to say that most people pay NO taxes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Allow me to clarify: most people pay no federal income taxes.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/228/" rel="nofollow">http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/228/</a></p>
<p>FORTY PERCENT of people pay no explicit federal income taxes.  I also don&#8217;t count anyone as a taxpayer if their income comes from taxes, which includes any federal, state, or local government employee, since any &#8220;taxes&#8221; they pay are simply an accounting fiction.  That&#8217;s at least another 10% .</p>
<p>&#8220;You are a free rider because something was consumed and must be paid for.&#8221;</p>
<p>Give me a break.  I make free riding possible.  What about the people who <em>aren&#8217;t</em> paying for it?  </p>
<p>&#8220;You don’t seem to ever think about the inevitable reply. &#8221;</p>
<p>I *always* think of the inevitable reply, which is why I heavily backlink all my posts.  Since I have written at length about many of the potential replies, I feel no need to waste 1,000 words reiterating an argument or a position to which I&#8217;ve already done justice. </p>
<p>If you have a specific question, reply, rebuttal, that you&#8217;d like to make, please leave a comment to that effect, or send me some mail.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Walker Purple</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5949</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Walker Purple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5949</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s only true if you count income tax alone.  That 50% figure (which I don&#039;t believe is even accurate for income tax) does not take into account payroll tax, state taxes, gas tax, sales tax, and taxes on services like utilities and rent.

So you are just plain wrong to say that most people pay NO taxes.

Also, the free rider argument doesn&#039;t have to rely on the labor theory of value.  You aren&#039;t a free rider because something was produced and must be paid for.  You are a free rider because something was consumed and must be paid for.  You have and continue to consume the benefits of defense, police, water infrastructure, roads, public education (even if you didn&#039;t go you receive the benefits of having an educated populace), and so on and so forth.

You don&#039;t seem to ever think about the inevitable reply.  You seem to assume that your answers are so bulletproof there could never be any criticisms.  Even if I&#039;m wrong these are criticisms that should have been taken into consideration when writing this rebuttal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s only true if you count income tax alone.  That 50% figure (which I don&#8217;t believe is even accurate for income tax) does not take into account payroll tax, state taxes, gas tax, sales tax, and taxes on services like utilities and rent.</p>
<p>So you are just plain wrong to say that most people pay NO taxes.</p>
<p>Also, the free rider argument doesn&#8217;t have to rely on the labor theory of value.  You aren&#8217;t a free rider because something was produced and must be paid for.  You are a free rider because something was consumed and must be paid for.  You have and continue to consume the benefits of defense, police, water infrastructure, roads, public education (even if you didn&#8217;t go you receive the benefits of having an educated populace), and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t seem to ever think about the inevitable reply.  You seem to assume that your answers are so bulletproof there could never be any criticisms.  Even if I&#8217;m wrong these are criticisms that should have been taken into consideration when writing this rebuttal.</p>
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		<title>By: no third solution &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Unearned Guilt: The Free-Rider Fallacy</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5885</link>
		<dc:creator>no third solution &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Unearned Guilt: The Free-Rider Fallacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5885</guid>
		<description>[...] are free-riders&#8221; argument as nonsense, as a slimy tactic which poisons the well with unearned guilt. Recent discussion threads at Reddit caused me to re-examine the &#8220;social contract&#8221; the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are free-riders&#8221; argument as nonsense, as a slimy tactic which poisons the well with unearned guilt. Recent discussion threads at Reddit caused me to re-examine the &#8220;social contract&#8221; the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5182</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5182</guid>
		<description>LOL @ the good old days.  That group of people are, net non-taxpayers.  Although they don&#039;t get a refund of Social Security, their cumulative benefit from social programs far exceeds the money they put in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL @ the good old days.  That group of people are, net non-taxpayers.  Although they don&#8217;t get a refund of Social Security, their cumulative benefit from social programs far exceeds the money they put in.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5180</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5180</guid>
		<description>What about the other 20% or more who sort of pay taxes but don&#039;t really pay taxes. Like high school kids or college kids. They pay some taxes up front but always get a refund check back because they don&#039;t make enough money to be taxed. Those were the good old days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the other 20% or more who sort of pay taxes but don&#8217;t really pay taxes. Like high school kids or college kids. They pay some taxes up front but always get a refund check back because they don&#8217;t make enough money to be taxed. Those were the good old days.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5174</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5174</guid>
		<description>I can has capitation? Imagine teh solidarity...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can has capitation? Imagine teh solidarity&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zach S</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5172</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5172</guid>
		<description>One of my favorite blogs Dave.  It&#039;s hard to argue perfect logic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite blogs Dave.  It&#8217;s hard to argue perfect logic.</p>
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		<title>By: DixieFlatline</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2008/12/28/who-are-the-real-free-riders/comment-page-1/#comment-5169</link>
		<dc:creator>DixieFlatline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=1640#comment-5169</guid>
		<description>Yup.  Class consciousness, Hans-Hermann Hoppe style.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup.  Class consciousness, Hans-Hermann Hoppe style.</p>
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