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	<title>Comments on: Smoking: Still Healthier Than Fascism</title>
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	<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2009/05/27/smoking-still-healthier-than-fascism-4/</link>
	<description>Blogging about liberty, anarchy, economics and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Zach S</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2009/05/27/smoking-still-healthier-than-fascism-4/comment-page-1/#comment-8018</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 18:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=2368#comment-8018</guid>
		<description>Yeah, sometimes it is very difficult to get people to see that things like banning smoking in a privately owned business or banning gay marriage is setting a precedence for more legislative actions.  Next they will be banning smoking in the home.  Legislators don&#039;t want to risk children&#039;s healths, right?  
 
With less and less people really caring (i.e. voting for their true beliefs, taking a strong stand against improper government actions), more and more extreme people will take office and will use these already extreme cases as the basis for their legislative proposal.  
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, sometimes it is very difficult to get people to see that things like banning smoking in a privately owned business or banning gay marriage is setting a precedence for more legislative actions.  Next they will be banning smoking in the home.  Legislators don&#039;t want to risk children&#039;s healths, right?  </p>
<p>With less and less people really caring (i.e. voting for their true beliefs, taking a strong stand against improper government actions), more and more extreme people will take office and will use these already extreme cases as the basis for their legislative proposal.</p>
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		<title>By: nothirdsolution</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2009/05/27/smoking-still-healthier-than-fascism-4/comment-page-1/#comment-8017</link>
		<dc:creator>nothirdsolution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 14:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=2368#comment-8017</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s ironic, IMO, is that no government (to my knowledge) has banned smoking in &lt;em&gt;public&lt;/em&gt;, i.e., on the sidewalk/roads, which the government arguably &quot;owns.&quot;  If the government has any legitimate interest in banning smoking (and I submit that it does not), it would have that interest only on truly &quot;public&quot; property.  Bars and restaurants do not qualify. 
 
But yeah, the problem is that most people are either apathetic, or selfishly unbothered by these advancements.  It&#039;s the same with gay rights or a lot of things; a lot of people say &quot;It doesn&#039;t affect me, so I don&#039;t care,&quot; and that&#039;s how it starts... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#039;s ironic, IMO, is that no government (to my knowledge) has banned smoking in <em>public</em>, i.e., on the sidewalk/roads, which the government arguably &quot;owns.&quot;  If the government has any legitimate interest in banning smoking (and I submit that it does not), it would have that interest only on truly &quot;public&quot; property.  Bars and restaurants do not qualify. </p>
<p>But yeah, the problem is that most people are either apathetic, or selfishly unbothered by these advancements.  It&#039;s the same with gay rights or a lot of things; a lot of people say &quot;It doesn&#039;t affect me, so I don&#039;t care,&quot; and that&#039;s how it starts&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zach S</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2009/05/27/smoking-still-healthier-than-fascism-4/comment-page-1/#comment-8016</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 14:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=2368#comment-8016</guid>
		<description>Although I may be selfishly happy when I am in a state or city where smoking is banned in public places, I am at the same time extremely sad.  I really do not believe the government should have the right to tell a private business owner what they can and can not do...AT ALL.  The market will take care of itself.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I may be selfishly happy when I am in a state or city where smoking is banned in public places, I am at the same time extremely sad.  I really do not believe the government should have the right to tell a private business owner what they can and can not do&#8230;AT ALL.  The market will take care of itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Olly</title>
		<link>http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2009/05/27/smoking-still-healthier-than-fascism-4/comment-page-1/#comment-8010</link>
		<dc:creator>Olly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 19:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nothirdsolution.com/?p=2368#comment-8010</guid>
		<description>Coming from one of the smoking ban states (WA state), I can&#039;t agree more with this post.  When the ban came up here, there were three major issues that were brought up:  
 
1) Smoking in areas where children will be subject to it.   
2) Smoking as it effects employees of venues where it&#039;s allowed. 
3) The ethereal idea that somehow non-smokers have been avoiding bars for years, and would come out in droves once the ban was in place.  
 
These are all ridiculous arguments.   
 
1) Why would you as a parent take your child somewhere that smoke is prevalent?  Do we need the government telling us how to parent?  When smoking was allowed in bowling alleys here, for example, I knew a ton of parents who would simply find other activities for their children, and no one seemed to care about it (otherwise, some enterprising bowling alley owner would have long since opened a &#039;family friendly&#039; bowl aimed at all those supposedly displaced families).   
 
2) The argument that smoking should be banned for the sake of employees is ridiculous to me.  Hey, maybe you shouldn&#039;t work at a bar/bowling alley/etc if you are worried about it.  Or if you are somehow specialized in that profession, go work at a place that DOESN&#039;T offer smoking (there have always been lounges that don&#039;t allow smoking, for example).  The argument from the employees themselves of &quot;we don&#039;t make as much money at those places&quot; is just patently crap to me.  Hey, guess what, the window washer outside my work (hanging from climbing gear from 22 stories) gets paid more than the guy washing windows at street level BECAUSE HE ACCEPTS THAT THE RISKS ARE WORTH THE REWARD.   
 
3) As for the idea that these non-smokers will somehow come out in droves, I&#039;ve yet to see evidence of that.  In my experience, people who are inclined to go out drinking at a bar didn&#039;t care about smoking -- and those who do care aren&#039;t that inclined to go out anyway.  In the meantime, the ban has sent cigar bars to close, martini bars to lose a ton of business, and has driven UP the business at tribal casinos unfairly (since they are exempt from the ban).   
 
Of course Seattle is always leading the pack in these things -- after all, we banned lap dances at strip clubs too.   
 
-olly </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming from one of the smoking ban states (WA state), I can&#039;t agree more with this post.  When the ban came up here, there were three major issues that were brought up:  </p>
<p>1) Smoking in areas where children will be subject to it.<br />
2) Smoking as it effects employees of venues where it&#039;s allowed.<br />
3) The ethereal idea that somehow non-smokers have been avoiding bars for years, and would come out in droves once the ban was in place.  </p>
<p>These are all ridiculous arguments.   </p>
<p>1) Why would you as a parent take your child somewhere that smoke is prevalent?  Do we need the government telling us how to parent?  When smoking was allowed in bowling alleys here, for example, I knew a ton of parents who would simply find other activities for their children, and no one seemed to care about it (otherwise, some enterprising bowling alley owner would have long since opened a &#039;family friendly&#039; bowl aimed at all those supposedly displaced families).   </p>
<p>2) The argument that smoking should be banned for the sake of employees is ridiculous to me.  Hey, maybe you shouldn&#039;t work at a bar/bowling alley/etc if you are worried about it.  Or if you are somehow specialized in that profession, go work at a place that DOESN&#039;T offer smoking (there have always been lounges that don&#039;t allow smoking, for example).  The argument from the employees themselves of &quot;we don&#039;t make as much money at those places&quot; is just patently crap to me.  Hey, guess what, the window washer outside my work (hanging from climbing gear from 22 stories) gets paid more than the guy washing windows at street level BECAUSE HE ACCEPTS THAT THE RISKS ARE WORTH THE REWARD.   </p>
<p>3) As for the idea that these non-smokers will somehow come out in droves, I&#039;ve yet to see evidence of that.  In my experience, people who are inclined to go out drinking at a bar didn&#039;t care about smoking &#8212; and those who do care aren&#039;t that inclined to go out anyway.  In the meantime, the ban has sent cigar bars to close, martini bars to lose a ton of business, and has driven UP the business at tribal casinos unfairly (since they are exempt from the ban).   </p>
<p>Of course Seattle is always leading the pack in these things &#8212; after all, we banned lap dances at strip clubs too.   </p>
<p>-olly</p>
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